Epic Thunderstone: Exploring the Variant

I was originally going to post this as a review.  Then I realized I really cannot get away with calling this a review.  My group has heavily modified the Village and Dungeon setup proposed by the Epic variant.  Thus the opinions given here are based upon a modified version of Epic.  We call it Epic because it sticks to the spirit of Epic but does not follow it to the letter.

For those who are not aware of it, Epic Thunderstone is a variant ruleset for the AEG game Thunderstone.  There are threads on BoardgameGeek that provide context to its pedigree as well as the rules.  Epic Thunderstone has worked its way into the Thunderstone Advance rulebook.  Kudos to the AEG team for paying attention to the player community and officially including the variant with the latest rules.  A great business practice AEG, you have my admiration.

The first thing I want to point out is Thunderstone is a system that responds well to house rules.  Epic Thunderstone was a great starting point in a journey to configure a game that suits the tastes of my gaming group.  The flavor we play follows the groundwork laid by Launius, includes suggestions from Vasel, adds a couple keen ideas by Yokiboy, and includes final adjustments made by my group.  I'll summarize the tweaks we made at the end of this thread.

What is Epic Thunderstone anyway?  

It is a variant that keeps the basic mechanics intact but adjusts the way you set up the Dungeon and Village.  The core idea is to use every card you own.  The Dungeon is organized by monster difficulty with the most difficult (highest XP) monsters at the bottom of the Dungeon Deck and the lowest XP monsters at the top.  The Village is organized in piles based on card type.  There are separate piles for Heroes, Food, Light, Spells, Villagers, Weapons, etc…  Several types of items are arranged in more than one pile for greater access, for example Weapons are randomly cut into 3 piles.  When it comes to Heroes you can only purchase Level 1.  If you want to get Levels 2 and higher you have to level them up the old-fashioned way, by earning and spending XP.

Image of my Epic Thunderstone Mat

The resulting Village is an arrangement of cards that reminds me loosely of Ascension.  You've got all the cards available, which means lots of combos to select from if you can uncover the cards you need.  When organized in the Epic fashion the game mimics a party of adventurers heading into the dungeon to slay monsters, encounter traps, and gain treasure.  During the journey the party gets stronger, heroes gain experience, and the monsters get tougher.

Its a great way to play the game.

Reasons I like this variant

Players have direct access to the class types they need to combat the perils of the dungeon (I organize the hero piles by class type - more on this later).  The ultra-randomized Dungeon Deck means you will encounter monsters that are immune to Magic Attack, ignore Edged Weapons, are immune to physical Attacks, eat fighters, eat militia, etc…  This Dungeon configuration provides incentive to create a mixed party.  Grab some Fighters, get yourself a Wizard or two, better get a couple Thieves just in case those traps show up, and season with a Cleric to cure pesky diseases.  This differs from the feel you get in base Thunderstone which can yield games where one Hero class dominates.  I appreciate the way the Epic Thunderstone monster lineup enforces the Dungeon party adventure theme.

Many of the fun combos are accessible.  In the base game you can have cases where a particular Hero / Weapon combo dominate and everyone competes to get that one combo.  In Epic those combos show but the random nature of the village limits the ability to spam the combo while unearthing other competitive combos.  "I see you just picked up that Selurin Magician, well that's OK I just grabbed a Flaming Sword to aid my Flame Guard"

Buying cards in the village requires thought as you might uncover something valuable for your opponents to grab.  On the other hand if you do not purchase that item you risk someone else grabbing it.  You get some interesting decisions "should I rest out a Militia this turn or grab that Short Sword while its available?"  This is similar in feel to buying cards in Ascension where the same risk is tangible.  This adds tension and an element of fun.  You're not sure if picking up those Glowberries will expose a Feast beneath.  Or perhaps you buy a Veteran from the Fighter pile, uncovering an Outlands for your friends opponents to pick up.  Curses!

Comparisons to Dominion disappear.  In this format the game ceases to feel like a Dominion cousin and more like its own game.  In defense of the core game I say the multiple expansions and the hard work AEG has put into improving Thunderstone has already differentiated it.  Epic shows you another way the game is not a Dominion clone.  I can't imagine ever trying Epic Dominion...

The linear progression of monster difficulty helps smooth out the game.  No longer do you need to worry about a starting dungeon chock full of tough 3+XP monsters in Ranks 1-3.  You instead start fighting the weaker monsters and work your way up to the tough ones.  Just like you'd expect to do in an adventure game.

Epic Thunderstone opens your eyes to the game system underneath.  There is a game system here and if you're not happy with the way your games are going then take control and alter the game to suit you.

So who would like Epic Thunderstone?

If you like the base game, try Epic.

If you like the theme of Thunderstone and its promise but feel the base rules fall short, try Epic.

If you enjoy a good dungeon romp and have no fear of house rules, try Epic.

Are there cons?

Games of Epic Thunderstone still take a while.  The goal of my gaming group is to tune the game so we can play in less than two hours.  I believe we've achieved this with our latest round of tuning.

The possibility of a stall is still there but I would say is diminished.

If you're looking to build a Dominion-style game engine then Epic Thunderstone is not the variant for you.

Thanks for reading this far.  If I had any purpose in writing this it is to illustrate that Thunderstone is a great game to fiddle with and hopefully encourage you to try it.  I also welcome healthy discussion on what cards are good in Epic and which are not.  If you ever feel like setting it up and want to talk card culling feel free to send me a message.

My Epic setup.

Use this Dungeon setup (6 level 3, 9 level 2, and 15 level 1 monsters).  Season with Dungeon Features to taste.

Use Yokiboy's Hero sorting.  Make a pile of each of the 5 base classes (mixed class characters go in the class pile they best represent)

Use Launius' Village card sorting and stack quantities.

Use Vasel's Market Variety rule

That's our core influence.  Here's what we do that's different.  

- When it comes to Monster pools we statistically adjusted the ratios to provide the effects we felt would help move the game along.

- When it comes to Heroes and Village cards we only include 3 of each type.

- When it comes to Heroes and Village cards we exclude cards that don't fit the Epic Format or are just plain underpowered.  That's right - we don't play with all of them.  We play with those that work well in the format and those that help build competitive hands.

- We added a Village rule that allows a player to spend 10 Gold to buy 1XP in lieu of their normal buy.

- We use the Prepare rule from Thunderstone Advance.

This was originally posted by me as an article at BoardGameGeek